Punjab CM Mann should not interfere in religious matters: NCM chairman Iqbal Singh Lalpura

New Delhi: Former IPS officer and chairman of the National Commission for Minorities (NCM) IPS Iqbal Singh Lalpura has hit out at Punjab Chief Minister Bhagwant Mann saying that the latter should not interfere in religious matters. The NCM chairman spoke to ETV Bharat in an exclusive interview on a range of issues including the Uniform Civil Code (UCC), and former US President Barak Obama's minority remark, the Gurbani row in Punjab.

Here are the excerpts from the interview:

Question: The Meghalaya Tribal Council, Nagaland Church body, tribal organisations in Jharkhand, Shillong, and others have raised objections and opposed the UCC. Muslim bodies like Jamiat-Ulema-I-Hind have also opposed the UCC. How do you view this?

Lalpura: The UCC was conceived in the Indian Constitution in 1949 only. However, it was not implemented. Then, Justice Kuldeep Singh of the Supreme Court in the case of Sarla Mudgil, President Kalyani vs Union Of India, and others, passed an order saying why it was delayed. I think the same was discussed in the last Law Commission, which issued a circular urging citizens to file their suggestions and objections. I believe it is a common issue and everybody has the right to say something and they must get back to the Law Commission. The Minority Commission is not the right body to comment on this as we have not been invited to comment or raise questions.

Question: But the minorities feel that their autonomous rights would be taken away?

Lalpura: It is in a very preliminary stage and the Law Commission has asked for citizen’s views, both minorities and majority. They should get back to the Law Commission if they have any objections.

Question: Prime Minister Narendra Modi in his recent US visit said there is no discrimination in India on any basis. It was followed by Assam Chief Minister Himanta Biswa's controversial 'Hussain Obamas' Tweet. How do you see this? Don’t you think such statements should be avoided?

Lalpura: I am not here to comment on this. I am sure that there is no discrimination against any person, community in India. People who want to oppose India on this issue should first see our growth. The number of minorities in India has increased from 16 percent in 1951 to 21 percent. So, where is the discrimination? The President, Vice-President, and Army Generals have been from minorities. Only merit is counted in the country. And when you speak about discrimination cases, we have a population of over 140 crore, it is negligible and less than half a percent.

Question: But you did not comment on Assam’s Chief Minister's Tweet?

Lalpura: I have already said that I will not say anything on this issue. In last year’s FBI report, there were 214 cases of discrimination in the United States. Two days ago, a Sikh was murdered in Pakistan. The total population there is 6,000. Look at the situation of minorities there. Where have these people gone? The situation is similar in Bangladesh. Abdul Hamid, who fought the 1965 war, was awarded a 'Param Vir Chakra' and gets his name as an island in Andaman Nicobar. This can only happen in India.

Question: Communal incidents were witnessed in Uttarakhand and calls for genocides were being raised. So how does the Minority Commission work in these tough times as you must be receiving a higher number of complaints?

Lalpura: We receive complaints and we issue notices when such things happen. An individual crime cannot be stopped entirely. It is there for time since immemorial. We are concerned if there is any conspiracy. Now the sacrilege of Guru Granth Sahib in Punjab, most of the criminals were from the same community. What motivated them, what is their psyche that needs to be identified?

Question: Several reports claim that people in Punjab at border areas and in others, the Punjabi Dalits are turning to Christianity. What’s your stand on this?

Lalpura: I have tried to arrange meetings with the Sikhs, and Christians in the Commission. The question is why are the Sikhs converting? Why are they not preaching Sikhism? We have asked for a report from the Punjab government. We have heard reports saying that the number of churches in Punjab has increased. The report may have come but I am yet to see it. It needs to be analysed and seen in the right context. Even the Supreme Court has said there should be no deceitful conversion. I believe that we have to live with our own religion. You look at Pakistan. Yusuf Youhana was forced to convert to Islam to become captain of Pakistan's cricket team. Now, he is Mohammad Younis. Danish Kaneria was forced to convert but he did not and was dropped later.

Question: Bhagwant Maan-led Punjab government passed the Gurudwara Amendment Bill, 2023 which aims to ensure free telecast of Gurbani from the Golden Temple. The SGPC has opposed it. What’s your opinion on it?

Lalpura: I think airing of Gurbani should be free, there should be no commercialisation in this. Our gurus have said. But I have some reservations. The claim that it should be free is a lie. As far as the Gurudwara management is concerned, it's up to them they should decide. SGPC is working under a constitutional law made in 1925. The government has some treaties with SGPC saying that they would not interfere in religious matters except with their proposal. The proposal from SGPC should come with a 2/3 majority. It will never be free. Because no channel is free. Whether you have dishes or cable, you have to pay for it. Why is CM Mann interfering in this? Earlier, AIR used to air Gurbani. Then, there was a demand that there should be a separate radio station in the Golden Temple. After Operation Blue Star, the government to pacify the Sikhs allowed them to air gurbani on the radio, which was then upgraded to Television. Even Indira Gandhi allowed it.

SGPC are the decision makers and they should decide. Mann should come to them for help and ask them how to help their community despite doing such things. I have been honoured as a Sikh scholar by the SGPC and I am thankful to them. Mann is interfering with the Sikh religion and I think he should not do it.

Question: Being a former IPS who arrested Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale, how do you see the security concerns in Punjab and Jammu & Kashmir?

Lalpura: These are two different things. Eleven people from Kashmir have cleared the IAS this year. There is an atmosphere of peace. We are fighting Pakistan’s proxy war and they have already taken away our huge territory. There is no large-scale violence in Kashmir and the number of terror incidents has fallen. There is a different problem in Punjab. The main problem is people going abroad or shifting to other places in India and setting up businesses there. Their children do not wish to become an IAS officer or doctor as they just wanted to leave Punjab and settle abroad or in other parts of the country. There is no law and order in Punjab and this is a major reason why people do not wish to live here.

People from Punjab are setting up businesses in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, and other states. Drug abuse is one of the biggest concerns. Punjab needs good and effective administration. For the past 20 years, Punjab has been witnessing turbulent times. In 2002, a case was registered against Parkash Singh Badal. Could the police get his conviction? The same police and others helped him get free. Then a case against Captain Amarinder Singh was filed by the same police, what happened to that case?

Question: Captain Amarinder Singh is now in the BJP?

Lalpura: I am not talking about individuals but about the system. The same police registered a case of corruption against Captain Amarinder and the brother of Congress former CM Charanjit Singh Channi. And he is now a free man. Where is that case? Who investigated these cases? Why was no action taken against the police officials? It’s been a long time, has anyone been arrested? The answer is no.